Tuesday, August 30, 2005

Should Christians promote the pledge of allegiance to the flag.......with or without God?

I have debated the issue myself concerning the pledge of allegiance, even when it included the words "under God", as to whether believers should pledge such a thing. In a documentary on the life of Dietrich Bonhoeffer that I saw years ago, I remember clearly seeing how much America looked like Germany and how the church seemed to fall into the same type of category choosing to follow the lesser of two evils, and yes, for the record I believe our current president was the lesser of the two evils in the last election. However, I still pray that God might turn his heart truly to Himself. With this said, it was especially enlightening to read the following articles concerning the origin of the pledge to the US flag. I hope others will be able to comment in the forum. Here are the article URLs: With Or Without "Under God," the Pledge Is Still a Bad Idea by Dave Black http://www.daveblackonline.com/with_or_without.htm The Forgotten History of the Pledge of Allegiance by Gary DeMar http://www.americanvision.org/articlearchive/12-17-04.asp Barmen Declaration http://www.covenantnews.com/daveblack041219.htm

By the way, I am concerned when churches share the worship of God with the symbol of the nation. I really don't think the flag has any business among the ecclesia. Also, let me just remind everyone of something that is related but not the same subject: when we continue to vote for the same people and get the same results, but we are expecting different ones, isn't that the definition of insanity? I am not a political activist, but I did promote a man that I thought would govern righteously in the past election, Michael Peroutka (Constitution Party). I know, I hear it now. Many are saying to themselves, "He didn't even have a chance." Maybe not, but a vote for the lesser of two evils is still a vote for evil. The words of Thomas "Stonewall" Jackson ring in my ears, "Duties belong to man; outcomes belong to God".


Nathan White said...


Well this post has new meaning now doesn’t it? I just commented on my friends blog ‘provocations and pantings’ that in a certain way, I am kind of glad to see the ruling this week on the pledge. Don’t get me wrong, I think it is a tragic example of activist’s judges who are doing everything possible to remove God from their thinking. Not only that, but this ruling could potentially lead to even stricter laws that will remove freedom of religion and freedom of speech for the Christian. However, if the ruling goes nationwide, it will keep scores of children from reciting a portion of the pledge that is absolutely not true. To me, this constitutes taking the Lord’s name in vain, as the use of God is thrown around flippantly, in an unholy manner.

Just a thought…

Tim said...

Amen Nathan! It is sad when so many Christians just pull at every shread of anything that has the letters God on it. Please. I just want to say that while we should keep God in the public arena, it should be with reverence and with honor, not hypocritically or as trifling with the Holy One.

While I applaud Judge Roy Moore's efforts to acknowledge God, he can do so without bringing a stone monument in, under cover of darkness, for a political engagement. I do say he at least had his priniciples and stood for them, even when it cost him. However, God is not interested, I think in our defending stone monuments, but in our exatation of Him and His Word.

May He grant us grace and repentance, not only individually, but as a nation. May He raise up many Jonahs, Jeremiahs, Luthers, and Calvins and bring us back unto Himself. Amen.

DOGpreacher said...

When another parent says put God back in the schools, I wince, and must say NO! I want math teachers teaching math, and history...etc...etc...and I don't want anyone teaching my children about God and the things of God but me, and the Elders/Teachers in our church.

You want God back in schools? Say that when the teacher in school that is "teaching your kids about God", is ordained, and a lesbian.

Parents are to teach their children about God (Deut. 6), not the schools.

Tim said...

I agree. I really do press parents that I speak with whether or not schools should even be used. The real issue is whose math is it? Whose history is it? Whose biology is it? Whose grammar is it? Whose language is it? Get the point? All of these are God's and from God. We must not separate these things from God. They must be intimately tied to the gospel of Jesus Christ.

We must not have our children seeking a one-time commitment to Christ, but we must be actively seeking them to make every decision for Christ, including how they view biology, language, history, and other "academic" areas. For we are commanded to take every thought captive unto Christ.

Why are all of these things important? Very simply it is because God is actively, not passively involved in all of these things. The obvious question we have from your post is this: Since Deuteronomy 6 commands that parents are to: "7 And thou shalt teach them diligently unto thy children, and shalt talk of them when thou sittest in thine house, and when thou walkest by the way, and when thou liest down, and when thou risest up. 8 And thou shalt bind them for a sign upon thine hand, and they shall be as frontlets between thine eyes. 9 And thou shalt write them upon the posts of thy house, and on thy gates." Notice when this teaching is to occur. It is not when a set time of school is in place. It is to occur throughout the day, from morning to evening (when you get up and when you lie down), while your out walking and working. They should see things in the house whether written or art work that reflects the teachings of Christ. Their homes are to be adorned with things of the gospel. Therefore, I do promote homeschooling as the biblical model to follow. Many will respond and say I'm legalistic. I don't say if you son't homeschool your going to Hell. I'm simply saying it is the bibilical model and it is the greatest place for evangelism, true evangelism. For you have the children there day in and day out and you can have the opportunity for the maximum impact.

However, this presents a problem for some families in our society because Mom is usually working and unwilling to follow the teachings of the Scriptures from Titus 2 and the examples of godly women who were not career oriented and bread winners, but wonderful homemakers in obedience to Christ and their husbands. Some of this occurs because men continue to be like our father Adam and not lead in the home and so they allow their wives to do those things and Paul is very clear when they don't follow the biblical model they give reason for the Word of God to be blasphemed. Any godless person can read thos lines from Titus and confront the career driven woman and say, "Hmmmm......I guess you don't believe the Bible afterall". I am one who is pressing to get myself home more and more. For I see my role as father and leader as important as well. god has truly given me a wonderful god-fearing wife. She is such a joy and I see more and more the grace of God continually being poured out to her. I wish for all those young men out there and for my own boys that they may be blessed of God to find such a beautiful gem, fashioned by the Master for their own bride and I desire the grace of God to abound to my daughters that they may not follow the ways of the world, but find their fulfillment in being the helpmate of a godly man and mother of children.

DOGpreacher said...

Yes, I was saying at the very least, that I didn't want anyone else to teach my children the Bible or the 'things of God'. Your previous comment has much merit. You would think there wouldn't be any harm possible in the three 'R's (reading, ritin', & 'rithmatic), thinking of these things as being absolute subjects. The problem is WHAT they are reading, or writing. I also heard last year of a class of subjective math, so I can hear your point louder now than I might have before.

It is obvious when one reads your posts, how thankful you are to God for your wife. My wife and I really enjoyed reading your profile and posts concerning your family.

My wife just went nuts over the 'Family picture' of you guys!

Your brother & fellow laborer,

Tim said...


Thanks for your comments. I have to get a new picture soon. We don't usually have the money to get pictures, since they are so expensive, but I talked the guy into getting us some at half price. Anyway, we will have two more to add next year, Lord willing. I will try and get some new one's up.

I still haven't gotten that email on the Sabbath. Can you send it? I emailed you, but I guess it didn't go through.